CHurched Review from Shelly
My friend Shelly won the copy of CHURCHED I had to give away. Below is her review. The notion of God being omnipotent and in control, yet bad things happening...and then what? Why do bad things happen to good people? Does God cause it, or allow it? Does he know all the permutations? Is the outcome static from the beginning or change based on free will? I had a very interesting conversation with close Christian friends who have been through lots of heartache...and they had an author/theologian they had recommended that helped them make sense of the mystery and struggle to get their arms around it. Do you think I can remember now who it was? But I left a message to find out, so stay tuned...what are your thoughts?
Shelly wrote:
I forgot to tell you this morning that I finished Matthew Paul Turner’s book Churched. Two things troubled me (other just the whole premise of the way some churches can put more focus on rules and numbers than accepting people into the fold, flaws and all, and allow God to mold them).
The first was the ending. I would love to know where he is now in his journey and I think, although real as it was, it may not show enough of the loving side of churches. Maybe he had just not gotten to that point in his journey at the time of writing this book to be able to find a church that shows love and mercy, while still teaching the basis of Jesus's purpose. I loved the book and thought it was very funny overall. Growing up in the church, I could relate to some of the things that occurred and it is humorous once you look back. You have to have a sense of humor if you are going to live in this world. I just wish the ending was different. It left me hanging and now I feel the urge to search down his blog and see if I can get a few more details about how things are now and how his view changed. I could have used a few more chapters.
The second was when he said, “People said odd things about God. They said he was in control, but when a teenager was killed in a car accident or a young mother died of cancer, they said that he allowed those deaths to occur so other people would come to know Jesus. That only made me fear God more, not have faith in him.”
You know we say it all the time. God's in control. Just let Him be in control. And then some very horrible things happen. So how can we explain God's omnipotent authority and still encourage faith? When I was diagnosed with cancer, it made me actually feel better to know that God was in control, even if it meant my death. To explain that is very hard. I couldn't even explain it to my husband who maybe lost a little faith along the way, not gained it. I think if I could address just this one sentence in his book, I would be getting somewhere. And so since this has been haunting me, I think this may be God's way of challenging me to look deep inside and search for the answer. I guess that's my homework.
Thanks for the book!
Shelly
Thanks, Shelly, for sharing!
Shelly wrote:
I forgot to tell you this morning that I finished Matthew Paul Turner’s book Churched. Two things troubled me (other just the whole premise of the way some churches can put more focus on rules and numbers than accepting people into the fold, flaws and all, and allow God to mold them).
The first was the ending. I would love to know where he is now in his journey and I think, although real as it was, it may not show enough of the loving side of churches. Maybe he had just not gotten to that point in his journey at the time of writing this book to be able to find a church that shows love and mercy, while still teaching the basis of Jesus's purpose. I loved the book and thought it was very funny overall. Growing up in the church, I could relate to some of the things that occurred and it is humorous once you look back. You have to have a sense of humor if you are going to live in this world. I just wish the ending was different. It left me hanging and now I feel the urge to search down his blog and see if I can get a few more details about how things are now and how his view changed. I could have used a few more chapters.
The second was when he said, “People said odd things about God. They said he was in control, but when a teenager was killed in a car accident or a young mother died of cancer, they said that he allowed those deaths to occur so other people would come to know Jesus. That only made me fear God more, not have faith in him.”
You know we say it all the time. God's in control. Just let Him be in control. And then some very horrible things happen. So how can we explain God's omnipotent authority and still encourage faith? When I was diagnosed with cancer, it made me actually feel better to know that God was in control, even if it meant my death. To explain that is very hard. I couldn't even explain it to my husband who maybe lost a little faith along the way, not gained it. I think if I could address just this one sentence in his book, I would be getting somewhere. And so since this has been haunting me, I think this may be God's way of challenging me to look deep inside and search for the answer. I guess that's my homework.
Thanks for the book!
Shelly
Thanks, Shelly, for sharing!
Labels: Bad things happening to good people., Churched, Matthew Paul Turner
posted by www.kathypride.com at
10:06 PM
5 Comments:
It was so nice to spend some time with you and "da fambly" this weekend and to go to church with you and to meet some of your friends. Simone and I had a fantastic time, even with my migraines and neck/arm pain shooting off. Thank you, Thomas Jefferson, for inventing electricity, and to whoever invented the heating pad, because without that, I wouldn't have made it.
I like Shelly's review of your book. Very well written and thoughtful. I was particularly interested in the aspect of when bad things happen to good people (Rabbi Kushner's book). When my brother Paul got in his motorcycle accident over 20 years ago and was at Upstate Trauma center in Syracuse, NY for a full year, my parents lost whatever faith they had had. They just couldn't rectify what happened to there being a loving God.
So after I read this book, I might send it to my mom.
Keep up the good cleaning and purging streak you are on. Now that I have seen the before picture, I can REALLY appreciate what work you and Audrey did!
love ya lots,
Katy
Ohhh, Kathy!!!
I am so in need of some purging!!!
I have "areas" where I have stashed things for a yard sale that never happens. My rational was that we really need the $, so I had better not just give it all away as I usually do. But when Steve and I heard (from you) that HUF will take all of it (it is mostly very nice clothes, anyway), he said, "just get rid of it! Take it there!" Maybe I will have to trust God a little more to provide, huh? So... when are you and Audrey available? ;)
That "when bad things happen to good people" (and I have the Rabbi's book also) is a hard one. When I reach my friend Beth and get the resources from her, we can open that one up for more discussion.
Yes, Katy, it was a lovely visit; thanks for making the trip!
And Pam, Audrey was actually saying that the word might get out and she really enjoyed it, so I bet we would come and help you out!
It is very freeing letting go of stuff. I had to laugh at the comment about trusting God more...because I ran the same argument through my head too. But HUF does such great work and it is just SOOOOO much easier.
Go for it, you'll feel great!
I think God invented electricity, not Thomas Jefferson...and I think it was Ben Franklin and a few other people, Edison and Tesla, who harnessed it and came up with practical ways to use it and transmit it. But I could be wrong--though I do belive God invented it, not TJ. :)
That question of bad things happening to good people (and the converse, actually, good things happening to bad people) is a great stumbling block for some people.
I think, outside of a personal relationship with God, one cannot actually fathom it. I have a friend who got an infection in her leg and ended up losing it. But she met God along the way, and she will tell you that she would rather know God and have only one leg than to have two good legs and not know God. I think that most people who really know God, will tell you they would rather be where they are WITH God than just about anywhere better without Him.
The easy answer is that it is all about free will (usually when bad things happen at the hands of others). It's a long stretch sometimes to connect free will to something like cancer. I know I still ache over babies I have lost and my nephew who fought 6 of his 8 years against leukemia.
In C S Lewis' "A Horse and His Boy", at one point Aslan stretches his paw and scratches the shoulder of a girl who lied and whose servant was lashed because of her lie. But when someone else asks about it, Aslan says, "That is her story, not yours."
And I think, when it comes down to it, we can share our stories, but God deals with each of us one-on-one. There is no one-size-fits-all rule or relationship or justice. And we can't really ever understand the "why" of a situation unless it is our own. It always comes back to "That is her story, not yours."
And another aspect of all this is, as Joseph said of his brothers' selling him, "You meant it for evil, but God used it for good." I do believe that, if we let Him, God can bring good out of any kind of evil. I often think about the creative power of God--but I think His transforming power is even more magnificent.
I appreciate your comment about our stories being our own. That makes sense to me. I also agree there isn't one one size fits all approach. And I absolutely agree that God can use what was meant for evil for good. After all, it was our son's involvement with marijuana that brought me to Christ and writing...I had no idea what would unfold when I prayed the prayer of Jabez and pleaded for my territory to be enlarged.
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