To Share, or Not to Share Communion...
If you want to learn about world religions, this is a great book.
"From Christianity to Islam to New Age...an incredibly thorough encyclopedia of today's world religions."
I picked this book up a couple of years ago so I could educate myself, but what really caught my eye was that there was a section on the Christadelphians, the religion, or faith system, my husband grew up in. As we spent the weekend with his sister and her family, who are devout followers (strict adherents, very involved in the church) I couldn't wait to get home and grab it to read up again on their beliefs which are so different from "traditional" Christianity that puts Jesus front and center.
In this book Christadelphians are included under the section on "christian" cults. I know when I mentioned this to Howie's older sister, with whom I find a willing to dialogue audience, that made her bristle. Remember, this is the religion my now agnostic/atheist husband grew up in and I ran from pretty fast when I was first introduced to it. I find it to be legalistic and had some very difficult experiences with one of the higher up males (no ordained clergy, male baptized members serve as the governing board and exhorters) in the church which smacked of hypocrisy to me.
So this weekend I participated in their church service, which took place around a dining room table and was just me, my sister in law, her husband and their two children. I participated (if you could call it that) out of respect for their beliefs and to worship our God together.
Ray read from a Christadelphian commentary on the Tabernacle (much focus on the Old Testament and prophecy of the coming of Christ). Prayer was as it always is, much the same, in old English. Reading is out of the King James Version.
The major differences theologically are that Jesus is not part of a triune God, (they do not believe in the trinity) he is man, his death on the cross is not substitutionary, there is no Holy Spirit and there is no Satan.
They do celebrate communion each week, but I was not offered the emblems. This made me sad, and I questioned them about it afterwards. There was talk of unity, but since my beliefs are not the same as theirs, I couldn't participate, we were considered out of fellowship with one another. It struck me as similar to the approach in the Catholic Church where only Catholics are permitted to partake in the bread and the wine, and so I asked about this. I struck a chord (a dissonant one) with that remark. Oh, no! I hate you even mentioning us with them in the same sentence...Unity?
They believe that only baptized Christadelphians are permitted to participate in communion with them (which they don't call communion, rather partaking of the emblems). I don't know if they would partake if they ever attended our church, but our policy is that all who have a belief and relationship with Jesus Christ may participate, and it is really between you and God.
I did ask if they felt salvation was reserved for only Christadelphians and they weren't willing to say that was true, rather that it would be up to God to determine, and that wouldn't be known until the time of judgement, yet they state they believe in salvation through faith and belief in Jesus. So I wondered why if it truly is up to God, and I was there, together with them to worship, I couldn't partake in communion. When I noted that that made me sad, it was almost as if it wasn't important, since it just represents our commitment, and is just a symbol, that isn't what it is all about, it is much more about living a life committed to and following Jesus. I agree with that part, but then felt if that was truly the case, why not offer me communion also?
It just left me confused, and I didn't pursue it because my aim was not to be contentious, simply to understand, and understand where our communities touched each other,if they do at all.
They also dress up to be at church, Lori wore a head covering and the fact that I was sipping on Decaf coffee was probably not appreciated. Only men can offer prayers (unless it is only an all women's class) and there are several other rule related practices that enter into their relationship with God...
Which do you think matters more to God? Our relationship with Christ, or following a set of rules and regulations to be "good enough" to enter his presence?
"From Christianity to Islam to New Age...an incredibly thorough encyclopedia of today's world religions."
I picked this book up a couple of years ago so I could educate myself, but what really caught my eye was that there was a section on the Christadelphians, the religion, or faith system, my husband grew up in. As we spent the weekend with his sister and her family, who are devout followers (strict adherents, very involved in the church) I couldn't wait to get home and grab it to read up again on their beliefs which are so different from "traditional" Christianity that puts Jesus front and center.In this book Christadelphians are included under the section on "christian" cults. I know when I mentioned this to Howie's older sister, with whom I find a willing to dialogue audience, that made her bristle. Remember, this is the religion my now agnostic/atheist husband grew up in and I ran from pretty fast when I was first introduced to it. I find it to be legalistic and had some very difficult experiences with one of the higher up males (no ordained clergy, male baptized members serve as the governing board and exhorters) in the church which smacked of hypocrisy to me.
So this weekend I participated in their church service, which took place around a dining room table and was just me, my sister in law, her husband and their two children. I participated (if you could call it that) out of respect for their beliefs and to worship our God together.
Ray read from a Christadelphian commentary on the Tabernacle (much focus on the Old Testament and prophecy of the coming of Christ). Prayer was as it always is, much the same, in old English. Reading is out of the King James Version.
The major differences theologically are that Jesus is not part of a triune God, (they do not believe in the trinity) he is man, his death on the cross is not substitutionary, there is no Holy Spirit and there is no Satan.
They do celebrate communion each week, but I was not offered the emblems. This made me sad, and I questioned them about it afterwards. There was talk of unity, but since my beliefs are not the same as theirs, I couldn't participate, we were considered out of fellowship with one another. It struck me as similar to the approach in the Catholic Church where only Catholics are permitted to partake in the bread and the wine, and so I asked about this. I struck a chord (a dissonant one) with that remark. Oh, no! I hate you even mentioning us with them in the same sentence...Unity?
They believe that only baptized Christadelphians are permitted to participate in communion with them (which they don't call communion, rather partaking of the emblems). I don't know if they would partake if they ever attended our church, but our policy is that all who have a belief and relationship with Jesus Christ may participate, and it is really between you and God.
I did ask if they felt salvation was reserved for only Christadelphians and they weren't willing to say that was true, rather that it would be up to God to determine, and that wouldn't be known until the time of judgement, yet they state they believe in salvation through faith and belief in Jesus. So I wondered why if it truly is up to God, and I was there, together with them to worship, I couldn't partake in communion. When I noted that that made me sad, it was almost as if it wasn't important, since it just represents our commitment, and is just a symbol, that isn't what it is all about, it is much more about living a life committed to and following Jesus. I agree with that part, but then felt if that was truly the case, why not offer me communion also?
It just left me confused, and I didn't pursue it because my aim was not to be contentious, simply to understand, and understand where our communities touched each other,if they do at all.
They also dress up to be at church, Lori wore a head covering and the fact that I was sipping on Decaf coffee was probably not appreciated. Only men can offer prayers (unless it is only an all women's class) and there are several other rule related practices that enter into their relationship with God...
Which do you think matters more to God? Our relationship with Christ, or following a set of rules and regulations to be "good enough" to enter his presence?
Labels: AMG, baptism, Christadelphians, communion, cults, salvation
posted by www.kathypride.com at
8:37 AM
6 Comments:
Forgive me for laughing at the question...I had a professor once who used to say, "There is no right answer for a wrong question." (like, can God make a rock so big He cannot move it?)
Christ died for our sins. We cannot "earn" salvation. I'm pretty sure that in our relationship with Christ, we will be following some "rules and regulations" because He has expectations of us. We are commanded to love one another!! If following rules would have worked, why do we even need Jesus?
I'm interested in what they baptise for if it is not to be washed in the blood of Christ, to receive the Holy Spirit--just in obedience?
That must have been a very stressful trip. I'm kinda glad I"m not in your shoes!!
FOrgiveness granted, laughter applauded! I wrote the question as more of a rhetorical question to keep the conversation going, or get it started again...I know which is more important, hands down. But I know lots of people (my family included) who don't. How many people do you know who are trying to live up to an impossible standard, trying to be "good enough" hoping they will "make it?"
It brings to mind another story, which I will save for another post. Google Christadelphians for more of their beliefs.
It is hard. I am called to love, but also to speak the truth in love, so doing so gently, pointing out discrepancies and opening the conversation to dialog (which is difficult) is how I approach it. Because I really DO want to understand why and what they believe. All I know is my husband rejected this belief system (thank God for small favors) but he also threw out the baby with the bath water...
A consistent, loving presence, (I don't always do that so well) is a huge first step in sharing Christ with others.
Have you pointed out to your husband that THAT brand of Christianity is considered a "cult". It might help him to know that the majority of Christians don't hold the same views as what he grew up with and some even consider it a "cult". I kinda feel that way about 7th Day Adventist...while I would not go so far as to call them a cult, or even unsaved, they do put way too much emphasis on legalism; and in the process have soured many people, even those in my own family, agains Christ.
All I can say is, woe to any of us who by our misrepresentation of Christ cause any nonbeliever to turn away from God!! (I can think of no more poignant reason to live holy lives!)
I am a Christadelphian and would like to make/correct a few points:
1. I do believe in the Holy Spirit - it is the power of God, the power by which Jesus did his miracles.
2. I do believe in Satan, we just do not believe that there is a supernatural enemy of God. Satan is an adversary - for example, Peter was a Satan when he opposed Jesus' going to Jerusalem in Matthew 16:23. We all have enough evil within us to make a supernatural devil quite unnecessary.
3. It is worth remembering that Christianity was called a sect or heresy in the first century AD (Acts 24:14). That fact that they were called nasty names didn't make their message wrong. Nor did it make them give up, I'm glad to say!
If you want more information about our beliefs - expressed by Christadelphians - try looking at http://www.dandenongbec.org.au/about/beliefs or http://www.dandenongbec.org.au/resources.
Thanks,Mark for sharing. I am interested in continuing this dialogue, but can't at the moment, as I am flying out the door. But I will share more of my beliefs and thoughts later, thanks for stopping by.
Hello again, I am finally back home. I wonder sometimes if the difference in the Holy Spirit and Satan diaologue is a question of semantics...but I don't believe so, because, correct me if I am wrong, but the Chrisatdelphians deny the triune nature of God, and also deny the diety of Christ. I do believe the Holy Spirit exists, but it or he, or the personhood of the Holy Spirit not only came to Christ, but has been given to us as his followers as well. I don't deny the sin nature of man, and would absolutely agree that there is plenty of that at work within us, but I also believe there is a supernatural battle raging, and believe the Bible supports that.
As for Christianity and heresy, you make a good point. Where I was this weekend, at The Great Emergence there are many who also believe aspects of that are heretical as well. What I appreciated about being there was the common ground we all found in loving and following Christ.
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